MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Questions and answers about 3Dconnexion devices on macOS.

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marcarch
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by marcarch » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:00 am

ngomes wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:49 am
marcarch wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:37 am
Oh, ok. So what was or is the situation with them? You're saying it's a bug, while Apple told you it's not?
As you might expect, we cannot share the details of discussions with our partners, Apple or anyone else, without their prior approval.
I'm just trying to understand what's the situation, because, you know, we have four 3Dconnexion devices not working here and we need them.
So here's our internal situation: if we won't have a timeline for a resolution (by 3Dconnexion or Apple) by the end on the month, we're gonna buy a new mouse for our staff, and, I'm sorry, but it's not going to be a 3Dconnexion one.

KlaudioPer
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by KlaudioPer » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:24 am

ngomes wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:28 am
KlaudioPer wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:21 am
:arrow: I just tried the SME on SketchUp Pro 2018, see below what I got:

:arrow: Buttons from 1-12 are the only thing working properly!
:arrow: Wheel for movement completely disabled
:arrow: Every other button (except the 12 already mentioned) are NOT working at all
SketchUp support in beta 5 is broken (no "wheel movement"). The issue is fixed in beta 6 and needs only to be validated as part of the beta programme to be closed.
:arrow: I also noticed that no matter which application is running on my Mac (even none), when the SME is connected to the USB port, the Mac doesn't go in sleep mode. I also tried manually, but seems that SME keeps it awake. When I disconnect the SME the Mac goes (regularly) in sleep mode.
This seems like your SME is "drifting" (always sending data even when the user is not touching the device). This can happen if the device was placed in storage with something on top of it as the strings will take some time to "relax" to the usual position.

If this does not improve, get in touch with our Technical Support team and they will be able to confirm if there's something wrong.

Having said that, I cannot rule out a change in macOS 11 that may be preventing the system from going to sleep but I would find this unlikely.
ngomes thanks for the clarifications.

I will contact the technical support today for the drifting problem, I bought the SME at the end of August and since there it has always been sitting on my desk, never in storage or with something on top of it. I don't know what is causing that issue, but about a month ago I've noticed that it is start drifting while I was working and then suddenly stopped.... :roll: :idea:

RVeldhuyzen
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by RVeldhuyzen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:57 am

I know you guys have a lot on your plate but I'd appreciate and answer to these questions:
  • Are you actively aware of the Maya issues (glitching viewport, unintuitive camera movement, full crash of software)?
  • Are you working on a fix for these issues?
  • Is tere an estimated ETA for a fix for these issues?
It's time to roll the dice...

ngomes
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by ngomes » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:34 am

Hi RVeldhuyzen,
RVeldhuyzen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:57 am
I know you guys have a lot on your plate but I'd appreciate and answer to these questions:
  • Are you actively aware of the Maya issues (glitching viewport, unintuitive camera movement, full crash of software)?
  • Are you working on a fix for these issues?
  • Is tere an estimated ETA for a fix for these issues?
We will be looking at Maya, yes. The issues that you reported are not necessarily related to the Mac. We have had similar reports from Windows users.

RVeldhuyzen
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by RVeldhuyzen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:37 am

ngomes wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:34 am
Hi RVeldhuyzen,
RVeldhuyzen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:57 am
I know you guys have a lot on your plate but I'd appreciate and answer to these questions:
  • Are you actively aware of the Maya issues (glitching viewport, unintuitive camera movement, full crash of software)?
  • Are you working on a fix for these issues?
  • Is tere an estimated ETA for a fix for these issues?
We will be looking at Maya, yes. The issues that you reported are not necessarily related to the Mac. We have had similar reports from Windows users.
That's good to hear.
Any idea on how quickly we can expect the full crash issue to be fixed? The other two issues are annoying but I can live with for the time being. Not being able to run the software at all is interfering with a big chunk of my work commitments.
It's time to roll the dice...

ngomes
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by ngomes » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:59 am

RVeldhuyzen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:37 am
Any idea on how quickly we can expect the full crash issue to be fixed?
As far as I can determine, you are the only customer reporting a crash in Maya. Do you have if the application is supported of macOS 11? Version 2020 requires macOS 11.13.x through 10.15.x.

We will address the issues with Maya but only after have stabilised the driver for SpaceMouse devices.

RVeldhuyzen
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by RVeldhuyzen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 am

ngomes wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:59 am
RVeldhuyzen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:37 am
Any idea on how quickly we can expect the full crash issue to be fixed?
As far as I can determine, you are the only customer reporting a crash in Maya. Do you have if the application is supported of macOS 11? Version 2020 requires macOS 11.13.x through 10.15.x.

We will address the issues with Maya but only after have stabilised the driver for SpaceMouse devices.
I have Maya 2020.1 and 2019.1 (always keep an old stable version on hand just in case) installed at the moment and checked with 2019.3. All have the viewport glitches and crash issues.

Maya 2020.1 crashes to desktop without warning within minutes when using the space navigator. If I don't touch the device (but it is plugged in) Maya keeps running just fine, so it's inputs that cause the crash.

In 2019.1 I get sort of a warning. The camera environment/background suddenly goes black, while scene elements are still there and everything keeps working. That's the point I have to save the file, because it will crash within minutes after the background going black.
It's time to roll the dice...

ngomes
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by ngomes » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:55 am

RVeldhuyzen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:08 am
I have Maya 2020.1 and 2019.1 (always keep an old stable version on hand just in case) installed at the moment and checked with 2019.3. All have the viewport glitches and crash issues.

Maya 2020.1 crashes to desktop without warning within minutes when using the space navigator. If I don't touch the device (but it is plugged in) Maya keeps running just fine, so it's inputs that cause the crash.
I have more information from my colleagues: no reports of crashes with Maya. Currently, the crash reports are isolated to your report.

To be clear, I'm not saying there are no issues with Maya but we don't have a crash scenario reported elsewhere.

RVeldhuyzen
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by RVeldhuyzen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 5:57 am

Hmm. That's interesting. I keep ketting consistent crashes in both versions.
I'll reinstall 2020.1 to see if that has any effects. I'll see if I can update tot 2020.3 and see what that does.
Reinstalling the beta driver didn't change anything.
It's time to roll the dice...

RVeldhuyzen
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by RVeldhuyzen » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:32 pm

Little update on the Maya front.
I completely uninstalled the beta driver. rebooted as the installer wants. Reinstalled the beta driver, rebooted again, installed the plugins. And for now it seems more stable! I have been mucking around in Maya for 10 minutes without it crashing! Not an in depth test, but looking good so far.

But another note, I noticed button mapping for Keystrokes doesn't work anymore. I had a button assigned to SHIFT, which didn't respond, tried the other function keys and none of those work either. BUT! this led me to another revelation. While messing with that menu in the system settings I noticed the various camera modes you can assign to the button through Application Commands in there (I remember those modes being available in a menu option in Maya (called 3DConnexion) before which isn't there anymore. But I tried that to switch between a few modes, which works, pushing the button activates that camera mode. One of the options in the list is lock horizon. Pushing that button locks the horizon to the ground plane of the scene again, making the camera move like before!
So my guess is that was an option in the menu that was in Maya before which I must have switched on a decade ago and have since forgotten about.

So at this point the camera moves like it did before, and Maya hasn't crashed yet, though again, that needs a bit more testing so I'll get back to you on that tomorrow. Right now I'm only experiencing the viewport glitching, but as long as that doesn't crash the app, I can live with that for now :)
It's time to roll the dice...

ngomes
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by ngomes » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:43 pm

RVeldhuyzen wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:32 pm
button mapping for Keystrokes doesn't work anymore. I had a button assigned to SHIFT, which didn't respond, tried the other function keys and none of those work either.
This is a known issue and we expect to deliver a fix in "beta 6" due in the next few days.

marcarch
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by marcarch » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:58 am

ngomes wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:43 pm
This is a known issue and we expect to deliver a fix in "beta 6" due in the next few days.
Good morning, I just had a call from Apple, they investigated in the issue and told me back that there's absolutely no bug in macOS. Since Yosemite they updated the OS to new standards and it's up to the mouse manufacturer to update their device firmware in order to meet these standards.

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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by ngomes » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:19 am

marcarch wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:58 am
Good morning, I just had a call from Apple, they investigated in the issue and told me back that there's absolutely no bug in macOS. Since Yosemite they updated the OS to new standards and it's up to the mouse manufacturer to update their device firmware in order to meet these standards.
I cannot comment on what Apple has told you privately. What I can say is repeat our previous statements: the devices worked fine in OS X 10.9 and they still do to this day on other operating systems.

I'd like also make another point: finding someone to point the finger at isn't going to solve the issue for our customers. 3Dconnexion remains committed to finding a solution to our customers regardless whether we are to blame, Apple or anyone else is. That was our approach when OS X 10.10 come out and it still is with the launch of macOS 11. Regrettably, we do not have technical solution for the UR and original CadMouse (wired) device types.

marcarch
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by marcarch » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:53 am

ngomes wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:19 am
I'd like also make another point: finding someone to point the finger at isn't going to solve the issue for our customers. 3Dconnexion remains committed to finding a solution to our customers regardless whether we are to blame, Apple or anyone else is.
Probably you misunderstood. it’s not about blaming someone, it’s about find who has to solve this.
I know you’re committed to find a solution, but (much likely) you can’t. I don’t know what are these standards Apple is talking about, probably I’m wrong, but to my eyes it’s like when they ditched Adobe flash, they won’t go back.
It’s maybe the reason why Logitech released a MX Master for Mac (a mouse with Bluetooth and no 2.4 GHz receiver)?

3Dconnexion was aware of this since macOS 10.10, and managed to address the issue very well via a Kernel Extension. Now that this isn’t possible anymore, I believe it’s time for us to upgrade to the CadMouse Pro, but 3Dconnexion should make upgrading users a discount for lack of communication.

rosenstand
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Re: MacOS 11.00 (Big Sur)

Post by rosenstand » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:38 am

First, I appreciate that someone from 3DConnexion is sticking their head out and explaining the problem in great detail, even while taking a beating for it. It's pretty rare these days to find companies that will publicly admit that they've made a mistake.
ngomes wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:19 am
Regrettably, we do not have technical solution for the UR and original CadMouse (wired) device types.
Does this mean that the Universal Receiver won't be supported? The beta notes only mention "Wireless CadMouse devices", but it sounds like all UR devices?

I bought a SpaceMouse Wireless 3 days ago, having already upgraded to Big Sur. Sort of works with the beta driver when cabled, but I had hoped to use it wirelessly. It would be nice to know if that will happen or not, as I hope I still have a chance to return it (3rd party seller) given the circumstances. (And buy a wired model instead.)

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