3ds Max 'center of rotation' with this new driver

Questions and answers about 3Dconnexion devices on Windows.

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Valen Wagner
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3ds Max 'center of rotation' with this new driver

Post by Valen Wagner » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:59 am

I see there is supposed to be a new way of automatically deciding what the center of rotation should be. But I don't see that its working properly.

For example, in 3ds Max, create a Box primitive that is 10 x 10 x 200 units in size. Then convert to an Editable Poly. Then zoom in to one of the ends and select some vertices. Normally at this point if you rotate with the SpacePilot it will use the selected verticies as the center point. But with this new driver, the center point remains at the center of the box, not the selection, so the model just goes flying off the screen when I try to rotate. This seems pretty useless, or am I doing something wrong?
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

philosofix
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Post by philosofix » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:14 pm

I too would like to know this. The equivalent of hitting the Z key would be lovely. This is such a wonderful tool it is a shame this is not working. Another caveat is the constant 3D camera it creates with every movement, leaving having the Layers Manager open no less than a headache with the constant refreshing. Both fixes would be nice. Let us hope.

Valen Wagner
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Location: Redmond, WA

Post by Valen Wagner » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:49 am

Can anyone at 3DConnexion respond to this? This is a serious problem with the new driver if indeed this problem I'm having is not isolated. What's the point in having a 3D mouse if it just sends your models flying off the screen because it doesn't respect the current point of interest - which is the current selection.
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

mbronto
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Post by mbronto » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:13 pm

I am starting to think that my problem is related to yours. I complained about the rolling axis not responding correctly and was told they didn't have anyone else with the problem so to just uninstall the new 3.11 drivers.

But now I think we are all having the same problem in 3DS Max. I've had some time to really see what is going on and, at least in my case, when the center of rotation is on an object and I zoom in pretty close in perspective view, Space Navigator keeps changing it's mind about where exactly the center is (even though the little blue cross is not actually moving off the target).

In other words, when I roll right, it responds normally, but then at some point in the roll, it decides that to keep my center where it should be, it should start rolling in the opposite direction. This causes the object to fly out of control until I realize I have to treat right roll as if it is left roll....I know that sounds confusing, but that is exactly what it does - it basically reverses the axis as you move around the center of rotation...and only in perspective view and only when you are really zoomed in.

Forgive me if I misunderstood and my problem is different than you guys, but it sounded the same.

Valen Wagner
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Redmond, WA

Post by Valen Wagner » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:00 am

It sounds like mbronto's problem is a little different but equally irritating. :?

Can someone at 3DConnexion PLEASE acknowledge this issue? I am currently working in 3ds Max and I am zoomed in close on a vertex and everytime I try to rotate with the SpaceExplorer my model goes flying off the screen because the center of rotation is not where it should be. This is no good at all. It worked great before, but this new driver is counter-productive. My only option is to revert back to the old driver until this is fixed. But the old driver is not compabitle with 3ds Max 2011 so there is another problem.
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

Phil999
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Post by Phil999 » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:53 pm

if it's still available, you can use the beta version that works fine with 3dsmax2011.

Valen Wagner
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Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Redmond, WA

Post by Valen Wagner » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:29 pm

The last time I tried to download it, it was no longer available since it is no longer in Beta stage. But I'm pretty sure I have it on my computer somewhere. But I'd rather they just fix the problem and release an update.

Maya has this same rotation center problem. Its very frustrating.
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

Phil999
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Post by Phil999 » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:23 pm

always keep older drivers :) You don't know if you will need them one day. I'm sure you can get it from 3dxconnexion if you ask. Or I can upload it.

In this context, I have a question. To set the focus point, you use the middle mouse button. But MMB still pans the view. I was not yet able to change the rotation center. How do you do it? How do you change the MMB mapping or what is the name of the rotation center command?

Sorry for the silly question, I feel quite stupid asking this.

Valen Wagner
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Location: Redmond, WA

Post by Valen Wagner » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:16 pm

I'm not sure how the MMB is supposed to work. And I don't see anything about it in the Help files...?
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

mbronto
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Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:31 pm

Post by mbronto » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:10 pm

This thread has been open for almost two weeks. At this point, I think it would be the right thing to do, if not simply polite, if someone from 3DConnexion could at least acknowledge the issue and say something?? "We're looking into it and will give you an update next week" would be nice...Anything? Seriously, it's not like there are 500 topics posted daily here. Plus, the concerns in this post impact the basic functioning of the product, so it is important.

Fred
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Post by Fred » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:37 am

Sorry for the Delay.
Ive brought this forum post to the attention of the Programmers.
They will be looking into the issue.

Fred

Valen Wagner
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Post by Valen Wagner » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:11 am

Thank you, Fred! Please also have them look into this same problem that exists in Maya!

Thanks again!
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

Fred
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Post by Fred » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:49 pm

I brought the Maya issue up in the meeting Yesterday for you as well.
Im hoping one of the programmers will look at the post as well.
They do read them and will be looking into the issue.

Philosofix, z key did you try creating a macro to point to the z key?
As long as its not something that has to be held down the command should still work. Ill have to see if the programmers can duplicate or see what may be causing the refresh rate.
Are you plugged in directly to the USB port or using anytype of hub?
The refresh should be instant not visible to the eye.

mbronto i havent forgotten about your issue either.
It is similar to Valens
I'l keep you informed when i get some info
Please add anything that can be helpful in troubleshooting.

Phil999
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Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:20 am

Post by Phil999 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 3:35 pm

thank you Fred.

Another issue are the axis directions. The earlier driver directions were correct for me (push knob to the right = camera pans right, push knob down = camera pans down, etc.), and in the new driver all axis are inversed. One can change this in the driver GUI and tick the 'reverse' checkboxes, but when you want to move an object, it is still in the 'wrong' direction.

I do not use that feature (moving objects) often, but in some cases (distributing dozens of lights in a scene) it was very useful and time saving. It is for me no more usable, it's impossible to mirror or invert my hand movement directions, and then (back in camera mode) invert again.

Therefore, the 'reverse' checkboxes should change the directions in both camera and object mode, not only in camera mode. And why not keeping it like it was, so that the users don't have to go to those checkboxes? As far as I know there haven't been any problems for the users since many years, why change something that worked so well?

This was mentioned in another thread already, I just repeat it as a reminder. The third issue is the non-working 'toggle rolling filter' command, to make the list complete (for me).

Thank you for telling the programmers about this.

Valen Wagner
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:54 pm
Location: Redmond, WA

Post by Valen Wagner » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:06 pm

I have discovered, I think, the source of the problem in 3ds Max. If the there is not enough vertices in the mesh object, the "Auto" setting for determining the rotation center will not work. I have tested this with a "box" primitive. Create a Box that is 200 x 10 x 10. Leave the sements to the default of 1 for the Length, Width, and Height values. Make sure the SpaceExplorer is set to "Auto" and notice how the rotation center does NOT automatically update. Now try increasing the segments to something much higher, like 10 per side, then the "Auto" function will work.

BUT - this still does not fix the issue of it not rotating around the current sub-object selection. The new "Auto" setting is a good idea, but when this driver is all fixed I would like to still use the Object/Sub-Object setting.

And to reiterate - This sub-object rotaion center point does not work for both 3ds Max and Maya.
SpacePilotPro, SpaceExplorer USB ( Driver 3.17.4 )
Windows 7 64 bit, Core i7, 12GB Ram
Nvidia Quadro FX 3700
3ds Max 2014, Maya 2014, Inventor 2013, AutoCAD 2013, Photoshop CS5

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