Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Questions and answers about 3Dconnexion devices on Windows.

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KonstantinosF
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Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by KonstantinosF » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:17 am

Hi there, I have the Space Navigator 3d mouse and I am looking to use it also as MIDI controller except of CAD navigation. I have found this site
with a driver RBC9, the VST 3DMIDIGator and tutorial how to install:
https://www.3amnoise.net/runagate/Space ... su2iWGuYUw

I followed the instructions, I installed the driver and the VST, all open but does not work. I must have done something not right with driver installation because when I open the RBC9 program it says: RBC9 Space driver - ! Space navigator not found !.

Anyone can help with more detailed instructions how to install the driver?
Also in the tutorial it says first I need to de-activate the 3d-Connection driver to install the RBC9 driver but I can not find how.

Finally I want to express my wish for an official driver for using Space navigator - 3d mouse as MIDI controller.

Thanks!

Phil999
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Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by Phil999 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:38 pm

to stop the driver, there should be an entry in the 3Dconnexion Start Menu, 'Stop 3DxWare'. Maybe it works after that.
Space Navigator x2, Space Pilot, Space Pilot Pro, SpaceMouse Enterprise

jwick
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Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by jwick » Wed Dec 04, 2019 1:14 am

I think you should be able to use the joystick mode of the 3DxWinCore driver in place of the RBC9 driver. IIRC, he converted the 3D mouse data into joystick data. The driver can now do that.

Is there src available for this 3DxMIDIGator.dll?

I'd like to add MIDI output to the 3DxWinCore driver, but I don't have a clue what it looks like (but bits are bits).
A few people have done their own implementations with interesting results.

Phil999
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Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by Phil999 » Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:53 pm

I also think that using the official driver with joystick mode, together with a Joystick-MIDI converter, is the better option.

I think that I used RBC9 for a while, and Space Navigator as MIDI controller, but I don't remember anymore. I don't think the Space Navigator is a good MIDI controller anyway. A real joystick (for flight sims) is better in my opinion, easier to configure. For some years I used a simple passive joystick (one that doesn't have springs) together with a Doepfer Drehbank controller to perform quad panning in Cubase. Which I then soon replaced with tablet MIDI controller apps (TouchOSC, Lemur, Konkreet Performer, TC-Data, etc.) in 2012, which are much more versatile and easy to setup.
Space Navigator x2, Space Pilot, Space Pilot Pro, SpaceMouse Enterprise

KonstantinosF
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Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by KonstantinosF » Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:44 am

Thanks for the answers! I will see again soon what I can do to setup it and make it work and the solutions you suggest. I am interested for this and not for a regular flight-simulation joystick because I can have 6 axis in one hand. I am also interested if I can develop in the future something similar with even more parameters to control for use in music or any other application, for now I do not have the knowledge for this, just some ideas springing in my head.

acoufhaine
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Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by acoufhaine » Tue Apr 28, 2020 6:42 am

Hello !

Have you find any option to make it worl as surround panner midi remote in 2020 ?

I would like to do it with cubase 10 / Windows 10 64bit with binaural panner (who need 6 axis)

Thanks for help !

Best !

chason
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Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2021 10:46 pm

Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by chason » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:08 pm

I created an account just to +1 and to volunteer to assist with this project. I'm a long time musician and programmer, I've done work with MIDI before https://github.com/ChasonDeshotel/Reloop-RP-8000-MIDI

I've been drooling over the SpaceMouse Pro since I've seen it but if it can't natively be used as a control surface inside of a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) then it's a hard sale

If you implemented MIDI and sent out the Mackie control surface map as a default mapping, it'd be the most compatible and this is what other manufacturer's do (e.g. Icon Pro control surfaces). That ensures it'll work in any major DAW. http://www.jjlee.com/qlab/Mackie%20Cont ... %20Map.pdf

I've considered getting one and hacking it up.. make all of the connections to an Arduino. For someone with a small desk this looks like the ideal control/transport surface

I would also want keyboard shortcuts on some of the buttons still but I could totally live without that if it meant MIDI

Will sign NDA. Happy to contribute, test, and/or advise

>A few people have done their own implementations with interesting results.

Is there source or are these reverse engineered?

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Re: Space Navigator 3d mouse to work as MIDI

Post by jwick » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:09 am

Hi chason,

There has always been some interest in MIDI control but I know nothing about it. Perhaps you can help me to understand the structure. I assume the 3D mouse needs to act like a MIDI device. It's not possible to change the actual USB output (HID MultiAxis Device packets), but it is possible to remap it.

It seems like a natural fit, having 6-12 high res analog of controls in one hand. It might not work out as well as it sounds. The values (axes) are not independent. They are sensed and sent independently but they are all sensed at once. It's nearly impossible to activate one axis w/o also inadvertently activating another axis. It's possible, and likely, that software filtering would be required to eliminate undesirable crosstalk.

The axes are also spatially mapped. It really only makes sense if there is some physical mapping between what you are doing with your hand to the result. E.g., moving left vs right could change the balance from left to right, if possible. Otherwise, it's difficult to predict what will happen, what relationship there is between all the controls. You might find that it is only useful one degree of freedom at a time-a giant jog wheel. Albeit a high resolution wheel.

The Windows driver can output any data. In the can, it outputs 3D mouse, Joystick, Keyboard and 2D mouse data, but it is extensible.
I think most of the people who have this working are having it output joystick data that another piece of software imports and converts to MIDI (maybe the DAW itself does this).
I'm not sure that is ideal, but the conversion software probably contains relevant GUI controls that are way beyond the scope of our GUI. Maybe the DAW takes on this task. I assume there is some mechanism for connecting a physical device output to a DAW virtual control input. (I've never seen a DAW).

There does seem to be quite a variety of patching software available with MIDI-specific options that are useful. Maybe there is one that takes HID output and converts it to MIDI device output. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the DAWs did this.

I'd be happy to work with you to develop something that supports the MIDI community. Having a range of potentially inter-related high res axes for input and warping seems like an interesting application of the 3D mouse.

Jim

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