Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

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jotunn
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Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by jotunn » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:17 am

I recently purchased a CADMouse wireless to use in addition to my SpacePilot that has served me well for years and I like a lot.

Extended driver support for the SpacePilot stops at version 10.4.10. The CADMouse requires a driver newer than that to fully function (I beleve 10.5.X or 10.6.X). The CADMouse functions as a basic mouse through windows, but with the version 10.4.10 driver required for my spacepilot, I'm unable to customize buttons, etc. on the mouse.

Question is: I'm in driver purgatory. One device (SpacePilot) cannot exceed version 10.4.10 and the other device (CADMouse wireless) needs something newer than that. Is there any way to accommodate full functionality of both devices? Can you run two driver versions? Or should I just return the CADMouse? (Before you go there, the SpacePilot stays).

Thanks!

luping
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Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by luping » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:22 pm

How about installing a virtual machine on your system, like VMWare Player or VirtualBox virtual machine. Then you can install old version 3DxWare and use it.

jotunn
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Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by jotunn » Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am

luping wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:22 pm
How about installing a virtual machine on your system, like VMWare Player or VirtualBox virtual machine. Then you can install old version 3DxWare and use it.
Appreciate the response, but I'm not sure I follow the suggestion. I do have VMWare, but my desire is to use both the CADMouse and the SpacePilot simultaneously.

Hypothetically, assume I have Win10 as my native OS, with my CAD program and the new drivers (for CADMouse). If I then install a virtual Win7 with older drivers (for spacepilot), I would be able to use the spacepilot in that win7 environment, but not in the win10 with my cad program (which is where I want to use it) correct?

jwick
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Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by jwick » Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:53 am

I believe you are correct. There is no single driver version that supports both the SpacePilot and the CadMouse.

luping
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Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by luping » Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:48 pm

jotunn wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:09 am
luping wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:22 pm
How about installing a virtual machine on your system, like VMWare Player or VirtualBox virtual machine. Then you can install old version 3DxWare and use it.
Appreciate the response, but I'm not sure I follow the suggestion. I do have VMWare, but my desire is to use both the CADMouse and the SpacePilot simultaneously.

Hypothetically, assume I have Win10 as my native OS, with my CAD program and the new drivers (for CADMouse). If I then install a virtual Win7 with older drivers (for spacepilot), I would be able to use the spacepilot in that win7 environment, but not in the win10 with my cad program (which is where I want to use it) correct?
Yep, you're correct. To meet your own desire, the real solution is to upgrade your hardware SpacePilot to a newer model, like the SpaceMouse Enterprise, such investment will pay for itself in the many years to come.

jotunn
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Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by jotunn » Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:52 am

luping wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:48 pm
Yep, you're correct. To meet your own desire, the real solution is to upgrade your hardware SpacePilot to a newer model, like the SpaceMouse Enterprise, such investment will pay for itself in the many years to come.
Ok...that's what I figured the answer would be. Just figured I'd check...appreciate the help.

There's certainly a much longer philosophical discussion (or rant) about hardware obsolescence by software...but I'll forgo that and simply vote with my pocketbook. I returned the CADMouse.

luping
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by luping » Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:23 am

jotunn wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:52 am
luping wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:48 pm
Yep, you're correct. To meet your own desire, the real solution is to upgrade your hardware SpacePilot to a newer model, like the SpaceMouse Enterprise, such investment will pay for itself in the many years to come.
Ok...that's what I figured the answer would be. Just figured I'd check...appreciate the help.

There's certainly a much longer philosophical discussion (or rant) about hardware obsolescence by software...but I'll forgo that and simply vote with my pocketbook. I returned the CADMouse.
If you making a living by using 3Dconnexion device(s), I recommend you upgrade the hardware to go along with newer versions of CAx software, it's common business practice to keep competitive on the job market. And, yep, there's quite the debate about the hardware obsolescence issue.

jotunn
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Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by jotunn » Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:43 am

luping wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:23 am
If you making a living by using 3Dconnexion device(s), I recommend you upgrade the hardware to go along with newer versions of CAx software, it's common business practice to keep competitive on the job market. And, yep, there's quite the debate about the hardware obsolescence issue.
I do make a living as an engineer, using, among many other tools, 3Dx devices. I would argue 3Dx tools don't grossly alter my effectiveness as an engineer (that's more knowledge, skill, ability, etc.) but they most certainly do increase my efficiency...which is why I've purchased them.

So efficiency is the metric. You must then ask, will a new SpaceMouse enterprise increase my efficiency over the SpacePilot.

As a piece of hardware, the enterprise has a few more buttons, more curvature, a prettier screen...but its core functionality is almost identical to the SpacePilot. From the software perspective, there's no appreciable increase...in fact, in some areas, software upgrades are bad (e.g. Catia compatibility).

So, that's the core of my gripe. Why would I pay $400 USD to upgrade a piece of hardware to something that's really not much better and would have a negligible impact on my workplace efficiency? ...well...the only reason is because someone made a business decision of obsoleting hardware by software. And that doesn't sit too well with me.

luping
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by luping » Sat Dec 12, 2020 9:11 pm

jotunn wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:43 am
luping wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:23 am
If you making a living by using 3Dconnexion device(s), I recommend you upgrade the hardware to go along with newer versions of CAx software, it's common business practice to keep competitive on the job market. And, yep, there's quite the debate about the hardware obsolescence issue.
I do make a living as an engineer, using, among many other tools, 3Dx devices. I would argue 3Dx tools don't grossly alter my effectiveness as an engineer (that's more knowledge, skill, ability, etc.) but they most certainly do increase my efficiency...which is why I've purchased them.

So efficiency is the metric. You must then ask, will a new SpaceMouse enterprise increase my efficiency over the SpacePilot.

As a piece of hardware, the enterprise has a few more buttons, more curvature, a prettier screen...but its core functionality is almost identical to the SpacePilot. From the software perspective, there's no appreciable increase...in fact, in some areas, software upgrades are bad (e.g. Catia compatibility).

So, that's the core of my gripe. Why would I pay $400 USD to upgrade a piece of hardware to something that's really not much better and would have a negligible impact on my workplace efficiency? ...well...the only reason is because someone made a business decision of obsoleting hardware by software. And that doesn't sit too well with me.
For the SpacePilot device, the first day of product avialability is 01.05.2005, the last day of extended support is 31.03.2019 according to the web page(https://3dconnexion.com/cn/support/faq/ ... d-devices/). Can you name another computer peripheral device company that can provide hardware driver upgrade service for more than 14 years with only one-time payment/purchase of the device? Bear in mind that most workers get salaries every month. And every company wants to make further income/profit to make the business sustainable to continue operation, it's common business practice, or simply an internal company product life-cycle management policy to phase out a product that has lost certain degree of profitability in the market. Don't you want to make more money by asking for a pay rise even though there's no labour productivity increase yearly or some time in your career to try to catch up with the consumer price index (CPI) change rate or currency inflation? Every business wants to make more profit/income/increase ROI(returen of investment), that's how capitalism works, the desire of human nature. I'm not affiliated with 3Dconnexion company or any of its suppliers. The SpacePilot is discontinued more than 11 years.

david_j_calabrese
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Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:50 pm

Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by david_j_calabrese » Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:29 pm

jotunn wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:43 am
luping wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:23 am
If you making a living by using 3Dconnexion device(s), I recommend you upgrade the hardware to go along with newer versions of CAx software, it's common business practice to keep competitive on the job market. And, yep, there's quite the debate about the hardware obsolescence issue.
I do make a living as an engineer, using, among many other tools, 3Dx devices. I would argue 3Dx tools don't grossly alter my effectiveness as an engineer (that's more knowledge, skill, ability, etc.) but they most certainly do increase my efficiency...which is why I've purchased them.

So efficiency is the metric. You must then ask, will a new SpaceMouse enterprise increase my efficiency over the SpacePilot.

As a piece of hardware, the enterprise has a few more buttons, more curvature, a prettier screen...but its core functionality is almost identical to the SpacePilot. From the software perspective, there's no appreciable increase...in fact, in some areas, software upgrades are bad (e.g. Catia compatibility).

So, that's the core of my gripe. Why would I pay $400 USD to upgrade a piece of hardware to something that's really not much better and would have a negligible impact on my workplace efficiency? ...well...the only reason is because someone made a business decision of obsoleting hardware by software. And that doesn't sit too well with me.
I hear what you're saying. The SpacePilot is as functional if not more so (with a bigger, clearer screen) than the SpaceMouse Enterprise, and with lots of fully working SpacePilots out there, one would imagine that it would be in 3Dconnexion's interest to keep these customers happy and loyal -- there's been talk of a (paid) Extended Support Plan where customers would purchase driver support for older devices, and I've also recommended simply Open Sourcing the previous drivers so the community could maintain them at their own risk. If you're a fan of something like this, feel free to chime in.

luping
Posts: 484
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:54 pm

Re: Drivers for older and new devices (SpacePilot and CADMouse)

Post by luping » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:34 pm

david_j_calabrese wrote:
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:29 pm
jotunn wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 11:43 am
luping wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 7:23 am
If you making a living by using 3Dconnexion device(s), I recommend you upgrade the hardware to go along with newer versions of CAx software, it's common business practice to keep competitive on the job market. And, yep, there's quite the debate about the hardware obsolescence issue.
I do make a living as an engineer, using, among many other tools, 3Dx devices. I would argue 3Dx tools don't grossly alter my effectiveness as an engineer (that's more knowledge, skill, ability, etc.) but they most certainly do increase my efficiency...which is why I've purchased them.

So efficiency is the metric. You must then ask, will a new SpaceMouse enterprise increase my efficiency over the SpacePilot.

As a piece of hardware, the enterprise has a few more buttons, more curvature, a prettier screen...but its core functionality is almost identical to the SpacePilot. From the software perspective, there's no appreciable increase...in fact, in some areas, software upgrades are bad (e.g. Catia compatibility).

So, that's the core of my gripe. Why would I pay $400 USD to upgrade a piece of hardware to something that's really not much better and would have a negligible impact on my workplace efficiency? ...well...the only reason is because someone made a business decision of obsoleting hardware by software. And that doesn't sit too well with me.
I hear what you're saying. The SpacePilot is as functional if not more so (with a bigger, clearer screen) than the SpaceMouse Enterprise, and with lots of fully working SpacePilots out there, one would imagine that it would be in 3Dconnexion's interest to keep these customers happy and loyal -- there's been talk of a (paid) Extended Support Plan where customers would purchase driver support for older devices, and I've also recommended simply Open Sourcing the previous drivers so the community could maintain them at their own risk. If you're a fan of something like this, feel free to chime in.
In light of your proposition about the old driver, it's not possible, to continue to develop the old driver is a huge software engineering project that's not profitable. By the way, I do like to use the 3D mouse, that's what keeps me in this forum for the past 2 years.

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