macOS Big Sur and Monterey - Pre-release Driver Available

[zoomer]

Another very vague, not helping comment.
Just for information.

I am not sure at all if it is related to Big Sur 11.1 update or related to latest 3DCon Beta Driver.
As both were pretty much at the same time.
But I currently notice input lags on any input devices (Including Apple USB keybaord) and
Apps (Podcast App)

But If 3DCon Driver is potentially able to destroy visibility of Vectorworks OpenGl Viewport's
visibilities, like objects disappearing from drawing window, which I read a lot on VW forums,
why not interfere with other input devices too (?)

I noticed here since yesterday, that the first CMD+N, to open a new Safari Window,
was alwayys ignored for the first time, while the second time it works as expected..
Also Safari didn't display certain Sites, for any reason, until Safari was restarted.
After a clean reboot, I checked Podcast App and it was heavily lagging too.

While 3D or CAD Apps were inconspicuous.
OK, Bricscad V21 Mac again lost its "lock horizon",
and VW suddenly jumped in View Scale from time to time.
(original Space Navigator)

[cjadams]

I just want the SHIFT key to work as SHIFT
also the CTRL and ALT don't work either.
NOTE TAB and SPACE by default DO work

In Zbrush you hold modifier keys to actually swap functions when sculpting
For example holding the shift key swaps to the smooth brush .. all these keys re 1000% needed in something like zbrush.
I'm not getting any indication they are doing anything at all system wide.

Even holding control while clicking the mouse doesn't do anything.
I have tried the setting both as "shift" and as 3d mouse default.

HOWEVER.. I did notice that if i hold it down in textedit.. i DO GET CAPS. So its sorta working.

Screen Shot 2020-12-17 at 5.10.40 PM.png (92.37 KiB) Viewed 28011 times

[zoomer]

SHIFT, ALT, CTRL .... keys aren't working for me either so far ....

[cjadams]

I do notice that it works in typing text.. and also ctrl+??? shortcuts DO work as well combo keys like ctrl-w to close window etc.
command + spacebar for spotlight etc..
BUT zbrush and other programs are not receiving the modifiers.

[ngomes]

BUT zbrush and other programs are not receiving the modifiers.

What action would that be? Are you trying to send "Control + S" to the application, for example?

If we don't know what is the action you are trying to execute, we can't verify why it fails.

[ngomes]

Even holding control while clicking the mouse doesn't do anything.

That's a known issue. Modifiers keys currently only work for key events (keyboard). They don't work with mouse.

In macOS, modifiers are only masks to keyboard and mouse events. In other words, only if a non-modifier keyboard key is activated (pressed or release) will the system register the modifiers. Same happens with mouse movement and buttons.

In macOS 10.15 and older, we have a kernel extension to provide a better key emulation experience. Kernel extensions are no longer available for us in macOS 11 and, obviously enough, we have not found a way to replace it (and we have been trying since WWDC 2019 when DriverKit Extension were first announced).

[TBRr]

unfortunately the space navigator only works for a short time in vectorworks and then completely flips.......

[ngomes]

unfortunately the space navigator only works for a short time in vectorworks and then completely flips.......

Can you tell us what is the exact version of Vectorworks you're using?

[cjadams]

BUT zbrush and other programs are not receiving the modifiers.

What action would that be? Are you trying to send "Control + S" to the application, for example?

If we don't know what is the action you are trying to execute, we can't verify why it fails.

you misunderstand me! -- In zbrush.. the way that program works.. it uses the modifier keys to do things AS you hold them down!
go look at a typical zbrush navigation video for examples of what i mean..
WERE NOT sending chorded commands but more individual letters for commands..and modifiers on the fly.
ITS A VERY keyboard heavy program. For example we do CTRL and drag the mouse to clear masks.. or Hold SHIFT to swap to smoothing verses normal sculpting brush.. this NEEDS to work like this inside the program.. its one of the few programs that use the modifiers with mouse movements rather than just sending a command+XXX type of thing like command-S for save as an example.. like other programs do. IE these buttons are NOT working as they would normally as they used to work. SO something clearly HAS changed.

[ngomes]

SO something clearly HAS changed.

Most definitely. As mentioned previously, we have a kernel extension (a "kext") in macOS 10.15 and older to emulate any key and mouse events. This technology is no longer available in macOS 11 and newer. Apple provided a replacement, DriverKit Extensions (dext), which we have been trying to deploy since it was announced at WWDC 2019.

What we have today uses a user-mode system API. That's why there's a warning for "key logging" permissions. If this isn't accepted by the user (check the "Security & Privacy" pane of System Preferences), then our driver has no key emulation capability.

On top of all that, we currently are not able to emulate modifiers when using the mouse.

[cjadams]

Can you be precise here please. when you say "mouse" are you referring to the cadmouse or spacemouse?
I'm pretty sure i said yes to all the prompts in security if any showed up.
I can check the other options.. DO you mean Input monitoring? i don't' see any "key-logging" option under the security prefs.

[cjadams]

NOTE that TAB and Spacebar BOTH work just fine.. even IN Zbrush.

Edit (ngomes): text cut inadvertently.

[TBRr]

vectorworks 2021

[ngomes]

NOTE that TAB and Spacebar BOTH work just fine.. even IN Zbrush.

As expected.

You will see that non-modifier key will work. The issue is limited to the modifiers: Shift, Control, Option and Cmd. These aren't handled the same way to non-modifier keys in macOS and without the kernel extension (or a replacement), we currently have no way to "inject" modifier key events to the mouse event stream.

We have a solution for keyboard, so "keystroke" actions with modifiers will work but not mouse button with modifiers.

Also, when replying, I deleted part of your post by mistake. I'm sorry, cjadams.

[ngomes]

Can you be precise here please. when you say "mouse" are you referring to the cadmouse or spacemouse?

By "mouse", I mean regular mice and not just CadMouse. For example, if you have a mouse from a different vendor and you press and hold of the modifier keys in the SpaceMouse Enterprise or SpaceMouse Pro, it won't work as it does in older macOS versions.

The generic term for a SpaceMouse is "3D mouse". A "mouse" is always a device like a CadMouse, a 2D mouse, say.

I can check the other options.. DO you mean Input monitoring? i don't' see any "key-logging" option under the security prefs.

Input Monitoring, yes.